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Turbo V2 firing pin spring.

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native hunter
Turbo V2 firing pin spring.

G"Day All,
I shot 6 cards of IRB today and had a misfire which occurs almost everytime I shoot.
After I first got this rifle it did it several times and I got a dismantling tool from Kim costick and cleaned the bolt which was gummed up with grease and the pin hit and sounded it had good authority after the clean and smoothing over a few burs in the bolt.
I greased the lugs and ramp which lifts the pin in the ready position to fire but I think a bit of grease has made its way back into the pin area.
Im thinking maybe just oil and no grease could fix the problem or another firing pin spring.??
Anyone know where I can get another spring just to remove that doubt.?
And I will dismantle and clean it again tomorrow again.
Regards
Native.

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Not sure, best ask Dan

Native
It is only a spring maybe you could get one from Dan ?
https://www.killoughshootingsports.com/index.php/actions/turbo-action-pa...

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

native hunter
springs

Thanks Benny,
I just looked to order them and they work out to be $8.15 AU each but the postage is over $100AU, Ive sent a message to see if we can work something out.
Thanks mate, always a champ you are.
Regards
Damien.

BigStick
BigStick's picture
$100

That's bloody ridiculous. $8.15 per spring is bad enough but the postage is over the top. You could probably get a thousand for $100 in China if you new the specs.
Kim

Peter Armstrong Mk1
Native

Native
Turbo use a very good firing pin spring so I very much doubt the spring is the problem.

With the Winchester 52 type firing pins the spring is under a lot of pressure so when the bolt is out of action is should be always uncocked. With very little clearance between the firing pin and the bolt body any oil or grease in that area will slow the firing pin down.

I have seen where the trigger hanger has been put in the wrong way around and that reduces the amount of firing pin travel and that can cause misfires.

I’ve always polished the firing pins in guns, if its rubbing anywhere that spot goes dull and I can make adjustments. Also any lube you put on the cocking ramps quickly works its way into the firing pin area. I highly polish the cocking ramps and it makes the bolt a lot easier to cycle and I only need to use a very small amount of lube on the cocking ramps.

Peter

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

BigStick
BigStick's picture
Peter

Which way is the wrong way for the trigger hanger? I thought it was for timing, so it could be used either way. Depends on your gun I guess.
Kim

Peter Armstrong Mk1
Kim

Kim
As far as I know there is only one correct way to put the hanger in. Some do turn it around to help with bolt cycling but it gives the firing pin a shorter travel and that hurts accuracy.

Peter

PS I should of set a little business fixing Turbo’s so others could open and close the bolt with one finger like mine. And I don’t touch the spring or timing to do it.

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

Robin
Turbo spring

Putting the trigget hanger in the opposite way can increase firing pin travel and put more tension on spring .

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Careful

Got to be careful as when you cock the rifle and it hands the firing pin over to the trigger it can bang into the shear
Not a gunsmith but that has got to be hard on your expensive trigger
There was a thread on all this not long ago somewhere

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

Knighty
Knighty's picture
Turbo

Simple solution to this problem gentlemen. Sell the turbo and buy a Stiller 2500 X. Smooth as a baby's bum and strikes like a brown snake in a rage. Just excellent right out of the box. Honest!

Team KAOS
All the gear and a bit of an idea

Peter Armstrong Mk1
Geoff

Geoff
To each is own.

I’ve only been to 2 world championship and both times using a Turbo I had a win, so I don’t think I’ll ever change actions.

I do see some who seem to have a new gun every 6 months or so. When I started in 2001 I had an 1907 Anschutz for a heavy and a 1827 biathlon for a sporter. In 2006 I upgraded to a Hall heavy and sporter then in 2013 I upgraded to 2 Turbo’s and they are the only 6 guns I’ve used in matches in Australia. I’m sure if I’d been one of those shooters who changed guns all the time I would of lost a lot more matches than I did.

Go Turbo’s
Peter

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

BigStick
BigStick's picture
Barrels

Just a quick question Peter. How many barrels on those two turbos?
Kim

Peter Armstrong Mk1
Kim

Kim

There are 2 sporter barrels and five .9” barrels between the 2 Turbos. But I didn’t start using extra barrels until 2010 and by that stage I’d already won 5 nationals so it’s a luxury not a must have item.

With barrels you could have 10 all from the same batch all fitted by the same gunsmith at the same time, yet one will be the best and one will be not so good I decided that on how they shoot through the wind not group size. After I workout which is which, one is set aside for big matches others for smaller matches and some for practice. Doing it this way does improve the chances of getting at least one good barrel. But when I did it the exchange rate was $1.15

Peter

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

Knighty
Knighty's picture
Turbos

So what you are saying Pete is that the barrel is what makes the action work. If you don't put in your best barrel, the Turbo doesn't shoot so well.

Team KAOS
All the gear and a bit of an idea

Peter Armstrong Mk1
Geoff

Geoff

Maybe my standards are a bit higher than others, but regardless of price I always like to use the best and that’s why I use Turbo actions and March scopes.

The barrels I used at the world championship 2015 haven’t been used since the WC I’ve been using the other ones. Number 1 barrel is my best and number 5 is the worst. In 2016 I used my number 4 in a few smallbore matches at Cecil Park and Western Sydney (you were there) and that barrel shot 600 every time. Last year I used my number 5 barrel at smallbore state championships shot a 600 and won that too. As I said my standards might be a bit higher than others.

Peter

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

johnw
johnw's picture
Barrels in turbos

Hi could you please tell me what barrel length you have and what you prefer

JohnW

Peter Armstrong Mk1
John

John
My .9” straight barrels are all different lengths. If the gunsmith is good he will slug the barrel and workout the best place to put the crown and that is way more important than overall length. But if your gunsmith doesn’t slug barrels find one that does, it’s a very important step in fitting a rimfire barrel.

Peter

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

Maureen
Maureen's picture
Hi Peter

Hi Peter

Who's your gunsmith?

Maureen

Peter Armstrong Mk1
Hi Maureen

Hi Maureen

All my Turbo barrels were fitted in the US.
I know Brett slugs barrels but no idea what other gunsmiths down here do.

Peter

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

Maureen
Maureen's picture
Brett Wilson is pretty good

Brett Wilson is pretty good that's for sure.

Are you going to the TRA nationals next week?
I fly out early Sunday morning so looking forward to seeing everyone again.

Maureen

Peter Armstrong Mk1
Maureen

Maureen

I’m having a quite year and not traveling to any matches, so no nationals for me this year.

Peter

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

johnw
johnw's picture
Hi PETER

Hi PETER
other than a barrel vice what type of action wrench do you use to change barrels with . i have a turbo v2 but cant find an action wrench to fit

JohnW

Peter Armstrong Mk1
John

John
DiOrio did make them but that was maybe 5 years so don’t know about now. Rimfire barrels don’t need to be on as tight as a centerfire so I don’t use a action wrench. Like most others I just made up a clamp with aluminium jaws to get the barrels on and off. I’ll take a photo of mine and start a new thread and go through with what you need and how to do it, for all to see next week.

Peter

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

johnw
johnw's picture
I look forward to seeing them

I look forward to seeing them and appreciate your help

JohnW

Bill Collaros
Barrell Vice

Rob Carnell Bossman of Brest Bulletin makes a very smick one John W

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

PWS2800
Barrel Vice

You beat me to it Bill I was going to recommend Robs vice it is great product.
Pete

BigStick
BigStick's picture
.

The question was, other than a barrel Vice what do I need?
Action wrench was also mentioned.
As Peter said, rimfire barrels don't need to be as tight as c/f.
I was told some time ago by Brett how to make an action wrench for rimfire actions. I'll wait for Peters photos .
Kim

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Tension of barrel

I was told that a rimfire barrel should be 350 inch pounds any less than 300 and shots will be thrown
At least if you do tension them up you can redo them up to the same tension if you had to pull it out ever

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

wally289
wally289's picture
Barrel Tension

350 inch pounds is 29.17 foot pounds this seams a bit tight but i am still Learning also the Sako barrels are only clamped in this is the 96 action I think so is the tension really all that relevant I know my center fire barrels tighten them self’s to an extent
Wally

Wombat

DiOrioMFG
DiOrioMFG's picture
We manufacture an action

We manufacture an action wrench for our Turbo rim fire receivers. The wrench fits through the rear of the receiver and is long enough to allow one to remove their barrel without removing the scope or stock. The wrench has a 16MM hex cut on the head and locks in to the receiver via a key that fits into a lug raceway slot. You will need a barrel clamp similar to the ones previously mentioned. We recommend torqueing the barrel to 17 foot pounds which is the approximate torque one would get if they screwed their barrel on by hand until it touched the face of the receiver, loosened the barrel approximately a 1/2 turn and then snapped the barrel tight by hand. Regarding your lite strike/misfire issue, I would check the amount of pin fall you have first. Our Turbo receivers have the largest firing pin foot print currently on the market and to generate consistent ignition you will need to have 0.165" - 0.170" of pin fall. The trigger hangers are engraved with a F for front and R for rear, the mounting holes of the hanger are slotted to allow adjustability of the pin fall. John Giles of Precision Shooting Equipment Company is a stocking distributor of ours and will have and or can get any parts or accessories you may need. We have an open export license with him and ship product on a regular basis. Should you have any questions regarding the procedure to check the amount of pin fall please feel free to contact us via email, phone or Skype.

Best Regards, Anthony DiOrio

BigStick
BigStick's picture
Anthony

It is good to see a manufacturer replying to the forum and helping us out on the other side of the world. It is hard to get parts (if needed) and takes for ever.
Kim

johnw
johnw's picture
That is great news i will be

That is great news i will be looking into geting one this month . thank you for responding and being helpfull

JohnW

tyrone.thompson
tyrone.thompson's picture
Firing pin to case strike

Since we on the topic of firing pin springs & firing pin fall. How much is too much case penetration. As my firing pin hits the case & it deforming the rim. I’ve had a look at couple other people cases with the same action there’s are a lot less then mine. I’ve attached some photos of my cases & a case rim.

Image: 
tyrone.thompson
tyrone.thompson's picture
Cases

Cases

Image: 
Knighty
Knighty's picture
Firing pin strike

Your photos look spot on to me Tyrone. So many people mess about with firing pin springs and the pins themselves in the belief that it will deliver better ignition!
The rim of of "RimfireAmmunition " contains the primer which has been pressed around the whole diameter of the bullet at manufacturer. To make the bullet fire it requires a sufficient strike to ignite the primer and send the projectile on it's way. Striking too lightly will sometimes result in misfires but striking too hard will only create problems if the hit is so hard the pin pierces the casing. I have never heard of this happening. With firing pins the important thing is to have constant unimpeded strike with enough force to ignite the primer. Polishing is a good thing but if it is hitting right don't worry.

Team KAOS
All the gear and a bit of an idea

Brett
Too much of a good thing

Knighty you can have too much strike.
If you drive the pin so hard that the firing pin pounds into the pin stop in the bolt you will get unwanted vibrations.
Ideal is to have the brass rim catch and absorb all the pin energy and not touch the pin stop. The turbos are great because using Peter's method its easy to measure and check.

tyrone.thompson
tyrone.thompson's picture
Case rim

I’m happy with how the pin is striking it’s pretty consistent. Just worried about the arc on the barrel face side of the rim. To me it doesn’t look like the rim is contacting the barrel face, so when the pin falls is rolling the rim forward. You can see where the case has expanded on the out side of the chamber. Is that something to worry about? Wouldn’t that cause unwanted case movement which in return affect accuracy?

BigStick
BigStick's picture
Head space

It looks like you have ample headspace and the case is hard against the bolt face allowing the case to expand slightly. It shouldn't be a problem unless it ruptures and it doesn't look like it would. Don't go looking for problems that aren't there, just shoot the bloody thing.
Kim

Micky T
Micky T's picture
Headspace issue

Nope Kim that's a definite headspace issue. It looks like the HS is way to big.
JMHO
Mick

RFBR HOF#1 HCBR HOF#7
BigStick
BigStick's picture
Ample

I did say ample headspace. I have ample belly too but some say it's way too big.
Kim

DiOrioMFG
DiOrioMFG's picture
The pictures of your pin

The pictures of your pin penetration look fine.

Best Regards, Anthony DiOrio

Atz2013
Turbo V2

I’ve had a Turbo V2 for three years, my pinfall is a tad over 170, and the penetration is 1 1/2th either way of 121th. 2017 the rifle won me the TRA Nationals with 2 record scores, a 636 with 9.6 flyer on day 1, ( 600. 59 integer ) and a 637.3 on day 2. At a recent prize shoot the rifle got me 600.59, missing the 1 centre by half a mill,
Brett Willson built my rifle, and does slug barrels to find the best place to put the crown. Brett has recently fitted a new barrel to the rifle, and I’ve managed to win the first competition that I shot it in Mildura, after having shot only 280 rounds through it

native hunter
firing pin spring

G"Day All,
I went to the TRA nationals and had a misfire on the first day and in the last detail on the last day had x3 misfires that did go off after recocking and one the didn't go off after x2 hits.
Bolt was stripped after day one and inspected but looked good and the spring was out of round and just not right.??
Chasing springs as I type.
Regards
native

DiOrioMFG
DiOrioMFG's picture
Turbo Firing Pin Spring

Native Hunter,

I have a shipment of springs heading to John Giles of Precision Shooting Equipment which should arrive within the next 2 weeks. Also, please review the recommendations I provided in a previous post regarding lite hit/misfires on this thread. You more than likely have a different issue causing the misfires that changing out the spring will not resolve. You can PM me directly to discuss, email or phone.

Best Regards, Anthony DiOrio

native hunter
Pin Fall

G"Day All
I just measured my pinfall and it is .154, that's 10-15 thou short of spec,I dropped the hammer on a case twice and measured again and it was .162,still not enough.
How do I adjust the pinfall.??
This action is glued in.
I have also sent PSECO my details to inform me when springs arrive also.
Regards
Native

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Page three this forum hope it helps

Peter answered this on a topic on the third page of this forum

http://www.benchrestbulletin.net/drupal/node/3562

Quote

To measure firing pin travel on actions without an exposed firing pins, use the shaft on the end of calipers and use it like a depth micrometer. Put the end of the calipers on the tang and push the shaft up the keyway until it touches the firing pin and just index off the tang.
As far as judging ignition I find it better to look at fired cases. If you’re ignition is a little limited there will be grains left in the case if it’s hitting to hard there will be scorching on the inside of the case, what you’re looking for is the inside of a fired case to be a very clean.
Peter

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

native hunter
Thanks benny

Yeah I read petes post after I posted so edited mine.
I cant get to much in the way of trigger as theres not much room under the trigger guard.
is it a matter of loosening the hanger bolts and moving slightly.?
10-15 thou aint much.
Regards
Native

BigStick
BigStick's picture
Hanger

Hi Damo. can you get the trigger out? You might have to go with elongating the holes or turning around the hanger. As Benny said is the case clean? I didn't know there was a penetration spec.
Kim

Peter Armstrong Mk1
Native

Native
You just lossen the bolts holding the trigger hanger and slide it towards the butt. It might take a couple of goes to get it exactly where you want it.

I make my own stocks and have always glued in but I take enough material out of the stock so I can get a trigger easily in and out but you end up with nothing for the front screw in the trigger guard to screw into. When I imported my Turbo’s I got extra trigger hangers and I have spare triggers setup ready to drop in. At a match my spare and all the right tools are in a ziplock bag and within reach at the bench and I can change a trigger without moving the gun off the bags.

Peter

PS I start another thread on Turbo firing pin spring management.

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

native hunter
Trigger hanger

G"Day All,
Just tried to get the trigger to slide back, would not budge and there is bugger all room, I could not even get the trigger out,although I thought it may have moved a tad, put it back together and measured again and now its worse, cant even get the trigger out,Im pissed off ATM.
Rewgards
Native

Micky T
Micky T's picture
Change the footprint

Hi Native,
It seems obvious to me but I'd look at changing the size of the firing pin footprint to improve your pinfall. Less surface area the more energy can sink into the brass.
Anthony states the turbo has the biggest footprint. So for consistent ignition a pin fall of over .165 is needed.
Well if your setup can't produce that then simply remove the firing pin and stone the sides of it down some. It doesn't take much.
That's only if this is your main problem that it's not performing as it should.
If she's not shooting well then maybe try something else before mucking around with it.
Changing the spring might be all thats needed as well.
Cheers Mick

RFBR HOF#1 HCBR HOF#7

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