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Eley or Lapua ?

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TheJet
TheJet's picture
Eley or Lapua ?

Seems like the "main event" in the USA has been cleaned up by Lapua ammunition 1-2-3-4 all shooting Lapua.
Congratulations to Donald Hamlin for winning it.

What does this mean to us here in Australia?

BigStick
BigStick's picture
Good

Good question Ben. I haven't tryed Lapua myself. Any tips?
Kim

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Hard to find

Well I bought some but I really haven't had much success with it as it obviously didn't suit my barrel.
But to be fair I have only ever tried one lot but I am going to try more test lots but where do you buy the stuff?

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

wally289
wally289's picture
can find but don't like the price

would it not be more of a question of who can afford to use the stuff it’s beyond me and my budget I have seen the packet price of it and ELEY IS WAY CHEAPER IN COMPARISON and works for me or as good as I can shoot

Wombat

wally289
wally289's picture
Lapua verse Eley

Below is the results for the U S A event all won by LAPUA ammo would this have been the same result given that if they were all using ELEY ammo at half the cost to me if you look at the scores from this event and previous events much the same and were all using ELEY seems like woman’s shoes in and out of fashion ??????????????
Seems like the "main event" in the USA has been cleaned up by Lapua ammunition 1-2-3-4 all shooting Lapua.
Congratulations to Donald Hamlin for winning it.

Wombat

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Wally

First Lapua ammo is cheaper than Eley match if using centre x
Secondly yes it is a big deal mate, as Lapua won against probably 80 % of shooters using Eley
So no nothing like womens shoes.
Hope this answers your many question marks

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

Knighty
Knighty's picture
Lapua and Eley

This is an interesting discussion. I have never found any Lapua that worked for me and the price of the up market stuff has always been too dear. Eley goes OK but the flyers stuff you up quickly. Too many just drop straight down indicating a "bad bullet".
R50 has proved to be the most consistent and reliable ammo for me. The price is up there but reliability is the name of the game i believe.

Team KAOS
All the gear and a bit of an idea

Bill Collaros
Stiller

Yep and maybe we should all sell our rifles and get Stillers/Holeshot Trident or 2500X, interesting times competition is good it makes for better products at better prices usually...

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

wally289
wally289's picture
The Eley Debate

As I have used LAPUA centre x and as like others I find it will not shoot in my rifle and have tried some of the other offerings having payed the price I found it was no better if not worse than the ELEY reason I stated what I did and I did look things up most of the shooters that won or have won in the past I found them to be using ELEY thus raising the question if the current winners were using ELEY instead of the LAPUA would the results have been the same I have not tried the R50 but have herd good reports also as others have been saying if you think it’s got an advantage and in your mind that's what you believe then you have to go with it
Wally

Wombat

BRT
BRT's picture
Eley or Lapua?

Yep, Fairly sure most of the winning at the recent World Cup in Slovenia was Lapua also.
International Sporter was Tapani Nousiainen (Fin) using Lapua I am sure
Light Varmint was Stuart Elliott (AUS) using Lapua (Midas plus)
Heavy Varmint was Luc Brouquier (FRA) I am sure was using Lapua but cannot confirm yet
Two Gun was Stuart Elliott (AUS) using Lapua (Midas plus)
Three Gun was Maurice Hassard (UK), I am not sure but he did tell me that he was glad he had won all this Lapua as he uses it. Whether that meant he used it in this championships I cannot confirm,

Annie & Stuart Elliott
www.benchrest.com.au

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Thanks Stuart

I thought that you and Annie were shooting Lapua with great success as is Billy Simmons.
Correct me someone if I am wrong but also Sully has been doing ok with it as well.
Though all of the above shoot pretty well with just about anything.

Is there anyone else with anything to say about this subject as I am sure that it doesn't all go Lapua way ?

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

Bill Collaros
Eley

Some very good Eley results recently via Mick Truscott, Caden Bardel and Robin Cox, i think Peter used RWS in Sydney. Looking forward to current Eley shipment in coming weeks...Competition is a good thing for all shooters it should reflect in better ammo and hopefully balanced prices...

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

spi200
spi200's picture
Ammo Choice

RWS and Lapua now dominates at our club (WSRC), has been interesting to see Lapua making a return but nothing more would please me to see Eley get back to where they were 10 years ago. As Bill says the shooters would benefit from having more competition in both ammo availability and price.

Dave

Bill Collaros
Backing up Robin and Cadens recent successes...

Team Eley Shooter Brett Wilson just added another great win taking out the IRB @ Coffs....

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

Morgo
Morgo's picture
I use both

I have batch tested some eley match that shoots just as good as the Midas plus I have been using for the last year , I find in my rifle the eley is less effected by the wind and temperature, the Midas starts to fly around at around 25deg , this is in my rifle I’m sure everyone’s is different

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TheJet
TheJet's picture
Professional Shooters League USA

1 Lapua
2 Eley
3 Lapua
4 Lapua
5 Lapua
6 Eley
7 Lapua
8 Lapua
9 Eley
10 Eley
This is an indoor match set in a chicken shed but a real test of rifle and ammo
Interesting outcome as majority of shooters using Eley

Barry Hilzinger told me years ago that the heat affects the Lapua more than Eley as well but pretty sure it was as hot as hell in the World Cup that Stuart was talking about.
Still don't have a good source for Lapua but got to try some

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

Bill Collaros
Benny

Do u think it relates if we have different batches of both ammo here ?

Brett Wilson won our equivalent HV Match with Eley recently but even then that was some older batches we are yet to try (in a match) any of this years and in late January there is new shipments coming probably of both brands.

Bottom line try and buy what suits your rifle not someones on the other side of the world.

Just saying....

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Bill I wouldn't expect you to

Bill I wouldn't expect you to not push the Eley cart as you are sponsored by them
But your argument is floored.
All our rifles lets face it, all come the other side of the world ,namely the USA
The boys from the USA are swinging to Lapua in large numbers as it is doing the winning.
Digs and myself have in fact tested the new Eley ammo in Dan Killoughs test tunnel but both chose last years stuff

After shooting with those blokes in the USA we really have nothin on how well they shoot and is a whole other level over there.
Whilst, Stuart and Annie Elliott, Sully ,Billy Simmons and Bec are all shooting Lapua it is hardly what is happening on the other side of the world.
As these are all skilled excellent shooters as their records show shooting with us all the time.
All of these shooters can buy what they want, though Bec is sponsored and choose Lapua.

I shoot Eley myself but would love to try some Lapua as well so in context, I am not saying that Eley is rubbish but not the only choice.
Just amazed at the shift that is presently happening in the powerhouse of benchrest shooting the USA.
Hence the post.
Doesn't matter a hoot what country the good ammo is shot in, its good ammo if your gun will shoot it and worth giving it a go.

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

Bill Collaros
All good Benny

My point was it really does depend on what batches are available in any given country at the time.

Agree with most of the other stuff you said not trying to be Kaotic or anything just an opinion.

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Its all good

No worries we must try everything we can get our hands on in this game
Never know maybe there is the perfect batch at the local gunshop for your rifle
Like the bloke (Rob)? from Mackay that shot that 250.23 with Chris Parrys great gun
With a brick of ammo he bought on the way to the range.

Love these kind of stories

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Midas +

Tried some Midas + on my three lug Turbo today it shot really well
Also tried the Eley 1080 I shot at Warwick a couple of months ago
Seems to like shooting either as well as each other.

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

BigStick
BigStick's picture
Interesting Ben (1080)

Ben
I just parted with some money and now have a brick or two of 1080 that tested ok in both of my guns. I was waiting for the wonder ammo on the mystery ship but it kept getting postponed. For those who wait I hope you can recommend some good ammo for me.

Dig
Dig's picture
Ammo test

Just completed a test of 13 batches of Eley. 6 lots of Tenex and 7 of Match. All the Match and 4 of the Tenex were 2016 and 2 lots of Tenex were 2017.
None shot as well as my 2014 ammo but I've ordered a brick of Match and Tenex which showed some promise. Speeds were 1074 & 1077 and both 2016 stuff.
Interestingly myEley showed these not to be the best of the batches tested. Just goes to show that you have to test in your own rifle and not necessarily rely on marketing hype to pick your ammo

Team KAOS - Lurking with intent
All the gear and "a bit more of an" idea

Matt Pedrana
Eley / Lapua Ammo for Best Results

I purchased the last bricks of the Eley Match 1074 from SISC after trying on their test range. Shot by far the smallest groups. Was running out, so again tested their limited available stock a few weeks ago and the Match 1077 worked equally well in my rifle (Copperhead). Interesting they had consecutive batch numbers.

It absolutely doesn't mean it will work in your rifle.

Moral of the story, don't buy ammo blind. Test before you invest and avoid the build up of expensive rubbish in your ammo store.

Therefore, the discussion about BEST ammo by manufacturer is in my view a bit of a lost cause.

Matt

Bill Collaros
Comm Games ELEY 1 2 3

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

Bill Collaros
Comm Games ELEY 1 2 3

Congratulations to David Phelps: Gold , Neil Stirton: Silver and Ken Parr: Bronze in the 50m Rifle Prone Men's Finals in Australia. All of the elite shooters came in a few weeks earlier to batch test at the ELEY HQ in Birmingham, and ensure they were equipped with the medal winning #ELEY #ammunition. The results speak for themselves!

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

Madgie
Comm Games

Great to watch and some impressive shooting skills, I saw on the Eley FaceBook page last month that they were all in at the test range getting their ammunition sorted before heading out here.

Great shooting

Madgie

Knighty
Knighty's picture
Eley 1,2&3

What a tremendous advantage those shooters had over those who were not able to have their ammunition sorted. I am beginning to worry about the fairness of our sport. It would be interesting to see how all the sponsored shooters would go if all shooters were handed their ammunition at the firing line or bench from the same manufacturer and batch. That would sort the men and women from the boys and girls.

Team KAOS
All the gear and a bit of an idea

Bill Collaros
Geoff

At that level you would find most of the line would have batch tested their favorite or sponsored brand. In any case we have all seen shooters with the best gear and ammo fail, batch testing would certainly be an advantage but the nutt behind the butt needs to know when to pull and how to do it under pressure. So again i congratulate ELEY they have certainly taken steps and continue to do so to make their ammo as good as it can possibly be and of course more congratulations to the Shooters who won Commonwealth Medals. #try the the 2017 batches and the 2018 when they arrive here you wont be dissapointed.

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

Knighty
Knighty's picture
2017 and 2018 Eley

Can you guarantee I wont be disappointed Bill?

Team KAOS
All the gear and a bit of an idea

Madgie
2017 Eley

Hi Knighty,

A few of us up here in North Qld got some 6 cases of the same batch of late 2017 Match out of the latest shipment and it does shoot very well. Some 250 cards at club shoots have been shot so far and some of us will be using that same lot at Warwick and Springsure later this year.

The best part is it shoots well in all different makes of rifle up here, I have a Turbo and it does do well in Anshultz and Sako actions as well.

Just for shits and giggles a few of us have analysed some of the 2018 lots from Killough Shooting Sports in Texas and the lot numbers and 2018 stock has some impressive groups. The Tenex, even though expensive has some .04" variance between the 4 test barrels. 1 lot even went .82" over the 100 shots across the 4 barrels.

Our lot of Match did get close at .84", and it shows in the groups we shot yesterday doing practice before Warwick in a couple of weeks.

If the 2017 lots are anything to go on, and the results we have had so far, then you would have to say they have found their MoJo again.
I have some 2014 Tenex left from a couple of years ago and it did shoot, but this Match out scores it hands down.

I'm not saying be any means it will turn every card into a 250, as Bill said the "nut behind the butt" does the most of it.

Madgie

Knighty
Knighty's picture
Eley 1,2,3

Madgie you have brought up some very interesting points. Firstly Eley shoots well in all different rifles in North Qld. I dont doubt this is true as it does the same down here. However, it is not standing out amongst the different ammo being used at clubs and in competition. Even Centrex is shooting better in many rifles and at only half the price. Midas+ shoots very well too and my choice R50 is possibly the most consistent. You cannot afford "flyers" in competition and consistency is what is needed. In the USA, Lapua is flavour of the month and has been winning just about everything. Eley is very good ammunition but not outstanding amongst the untested and unsorted ammo we shoot here in Australia.
The second point is the variance over 4 test barrels. I am assuming you are talking about the testing done by Eley at the factory. If this is so, it is important to remember, the result is an average. Any flyers are hidden in this average but are not hidden in competition.
Please dont think I am being critical of Eley Madgie because I am not. I am simply not convinced it is as good as we are being led to believe. I have been to three Eley ammunition talks at world events where the "Bell curve"was featured as the variation in populations (batches) and so we should expect some differences but just how much difference was not talked about. Given the stringent and precise manufacturing process surely we should expect very tight uniformity
But we dont get it unless we batch test and sort our ammo in controlled conditions. Eley even went so far as to tell us the way we pick each bullet out of the packet makes a difference. Picking the ammo out randomley rather than one after another in line would produce tighter groups. I found that quite interesting. I even tried it a few times and yep, you guessed it . No difference but I really didnt expect any.
Eley and all other manufacturers go to an enormous amount of effort to get the ammo right for sponsored shooters at world events. The ammo we get is very different.

Team KAOS
All the gear and a bit of an idea

Madgie
Maybe

Hi Knighty,

We are all shooting so much better than say 10-15 years ago, everything has improved. Rests, rifles, ammo and even our own skills have better. I grabbed out some old BR50 targets I have and looked at them just last night, some 20 years old. I have the same rifle, Sako P94 Varmit and I even have the same ammo. Lapua Midas M, still wrapped in plastic and stored properly, the lubricant is still good, it even smells the same when shot, smells like victory.

I think if was to go and do a couple of cards, score them now I believe we would do better. Worst edge scoring and the short time made it hard back then to get a feel for the flyers we talk about now, they happened but it was the nature of the sport.

The internet and what we read and the info we take a gospel, from other shooters has made it hard to really understand the truth. I suppose what I am really saying is, did we have all this trouble back then or was it information overload we have now. As my father used to say "common sense isn't a degree at university" science is ability to look at something and record the results of tests and make quanitive interpretations.

The ammo is made in the same factories in the same locations, the same temps and we are now looking for the laser ammo. aim at the dot and it hits.

Centre X for us is about the same price as Match so we just went with the Eley, we can all shoot it out of our rifles. If Eley or Lapua wants to give their shooters the best then that is what competition is, giving the best, to the best to make sure it wins.

No different to any sport really, Supercars is the same, factory team like 888 get the parts and teams that buy the cars as customers get the base car and have to make their own go fast parts.

Both Eley and Lapua have quality control processes and everything is made in house so they have everything controlled, what they do now with testing and allow us to have that info is something we could of dreamed about 10 years ago.

To know that this will most probably be the last Commonwealth games with shooting events, makes it sad to realise we are running out of time in our sport. The question is how much longer do we have in our chosen sport?

My grand father was a professional shooter during the depression and survived on his skills as a marksman, what got me wanting to learn as a eight year old was when he shot a sparrow on the back fence with a BSA air rifle and about 45 yards when he was 78 years old.

Ammo does make a big part of what we do but don't forget our complex mind plays the biggest part of shooting. If anyone would of asked me on that day if my grandfather was going to hit that bird I would of said "no". He had the skills and the knew in his mind he could do it and he did.

Just to prove it wasn't a fluke he shot the stalk of a weed, same distance, against the back shed straight after it. that stalk was about 10mm wide, I was asking him how he did it, I was looking at him and couldn't believe what he had just done. Thats when he told me I'll show you how to do it. Thats when it started for me.

Most of the variation is in our heads, we can read the same info and take away different perspectives, mental training of the mind is more important than the mechanics, the ammo has improved but so has mental abilities of the sport too. I'm not sold on the idea that one brand is better than the other, the both have their place. If anything we are the winners as completion makes better products.

I would one day love to be a sponsored shooter, I was with cycling as a teenager. They gave me the bikes and I just had to ride them.

I am like you Knighty, we all want the same thing, the best of the best.

Madgie

Peter Armstrong Mk1
Ammo

Geoff
When people go to a ammo manufacturers test range they are testing the best available lots that manufacture has, problem is all of them sometimes make a lot of killer lots and sometimes they make plenty of very average lots. A good example was the world champions in Brisbane, the guys from Finland went to Lapua and tested and found some good ammo and had great results. The guys from the UK went to Eley and tested and found some average ammo and had poor results in Brisbane. But 4 years before that at the world championship in the US the Lapua sponsored shooters had bad ammo and low scores. Being a sponsored shooter does save you money on ammo but doesn’t mean you’ll win international matches.

As for flyers a large percentage can be traced back the ignition and cleaning but people find it easier blame the ammo. I have noticed over the years that guns with not so great ignition do seem to shot ok with RWS.

Peter

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

Knighty
Knighty's picture
Ignition

Spot on Pete. I remember the Finish team in South Carolina in 2011 when their Lapua Exact was not working. They even gave me a brick of it to bring home. It didnt work for me either.
I know nothing about Ignition apart from the firing pin igniting the primer to create an explosion which propells the projectile up the barrel. I have one of the finest triggers available and the strike is solid. I dont understand how this ignition can change the performance of ammunition. We need to have a yarn about this some time mate

Team KAOS
All the gear and a bit of an idea

PWS2800
Great Idea

Would be a great idea to include ammo in the price of entry so everyone shoots the supplied brand and batch of ammo , would make for some interesting competitions and may even save some shooters money

BigStick
BigStick's picture
Ammo

The last IRB comp I went to (6 cards) I took the last 5 packets of my good ammo I have left, I still have 1 packet left.
Peter if you want to save money, find very good ammo and don't waste it on sighters. Your last shot was your sighter.
Kim

PWS2800
No Stock

I Agee Kim ,living in the county makes it hard to get ammo as we have to travel to Sydney to buy our ammo and SISC doesn’t have any new batches in stock

Bill Collaros
Strange

As NIOA say they have plenty of Tenex etc in stock

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

Bill Collaros
Current NIOA TENEX STOCK

Reference Lot Available
1017-02337 1060 1,950
1017-03230 1078 16,150
1017-03243 1058 30,700
1017-06257 1069 7,050
1017-03228 1068 1,350
1017-04230 1066 21,750
1017-06241 1056 5,800

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

BigStick
BigStick's picture
Red

I can't afford red and even if I could it isn't that much better then black so I would rather buy more black and practice.
Kim

Bill Collaros
Further Info & sorted

SISC have just made an order should be in within 10 days or so, over to you guys.

If u ever want to call me, you all have my details, PWS i am waiting on reply re Junior Medals and Voucher i suspect Brian is checking with Aust Post Tracking

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

Micky T
Micky T's picture
Match? ? ?

Bill any info on what they have in the Match?

RFBR HOF#1 HCBR HOF#7
Bill Collaros
Match

Here is the current NIOA Stock of Eley Match Mick, go nuts Kim

Reference Lot Available
1017-06231 1059 30,500
1017-06266 1060 28,950
1017-03247 1068 36,250
1017-03252 1068 34,750
1017-03253 1065 33,600
1017-03206 1060 27,700
1017-03194 1064 25,350
1017-03245 1061 44,100
1117-06223 1063 14,250
1017-02293 1067 24,350
1017-03181 1065 19,450
1117-02326 1062 35,650
1117-03200 1064 40,950
1116-04237 1082 13,700
1117-05339 1067 36,350
1117-05342 1063 30,200
1617-02363 1063 30,600
1017-03249 1076 23,750
1117-02332 1065 29,700
1117-06220 1052 8,300
1117-06222 1059 22,450
1017-05348 1060 23,800
1117-04190 1058 19,750
1117-05344 1060 26,150
1017-05365 1069 24,350
1117-03205 1073 14,750
1117-03203 1072 71,450
1017-02349 1060 32,450
1017-02350 1058 30,900
1017-08215 1058 24,750

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

Maureen
Maureen's picture
I haven't bought Tenex since

I haven't bought Tenex since Adam was a boy. Maybe I should try some.

Maureen

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Bill could you tell us about this ?

1617-02363 1063 30,600 Eley Match what does the 1617 mean Bill ?
Realise that the 17 means the year of manufacture .
Its not a typo as it is showing up in Zanders USA stock codes as well

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

Bill Collaros
Hi Benny

Here u go

Image: 

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

TheJet
TheJet's picture
Bad communication on my part Bill

Ok maybe I asked wrong and I will try again
What is the 16 loaded product and how does it differ from 10 ?

Team KAOS
All the gear and no idea

Peter Armstrong Mk1
Ben

Ben
If I remember it right 10 means it started off as tenex some ammo is downgraded and still has the 10. But if it’s a different number that lot started as something else, could be the brass or bullets are out of spec.

Peter

RBA HoF #1 (2007)

Bill Collaros
Be back to you asap

I will ask Benny

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

Bill Collaros
10

10 is Product code for Tenex 16 is Team 11 is Match maybe it is typo ?

I will check some Match i have in the safe to see

Bill Collaros
Sydney - Australia
"Shoot to Thrill"

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